Chat Details

'Boogie Man' director Stefan Forbes 11-12-08

This chat will begin at 1 p.m. on Wednesday, November 12, 2008.

Read the transcript of the chat with Stefan Forbes, director of the film "Boogie Man: The Lee Atwater Story," who joined us on Wednesday, Nov. 12

Transcript

1. • The Washington Times is pleased to welcome for a live chat Stefan Forbes, director of the film "Boogie Man: The Lee Atwater Story." Good afternoon, Mr. Forbes. Thank you for being with us today. by David Eldridge
   • Answer: Glad to be here, and thanks for having me. by
2. • Did the Dukakis "revolving door" ad actually have the African-American actor look up at the camera, or was this coincidence? by Washington, DC
   • Answer: You know, I've wondered if this was something the director of the commercial did on set, or the editor happened to find the moment in the editing room. The ad is so powerful, and so carefully produced, that I find it hard to believe it was a complete accident that it wound up in there. It's interesting that when I was making the film and I mentioned the commercial to people, they often said "Oh yeah, the commercial with all the black guys going through the prison gate." Even though there's only one African-American in the line, it's so powerful when he looks at the camera, that it seems to affect peoples' perceptions of the whole commercial. Of course, it is possible to legitimately talk about crime and African-Americans, but it has so often been done in a way designed to give crime a black face in America and let us white guys off the hook for all of our violence. We're the most violent nation in the world and everyone's got to search our souls about that, right? Hopefully as a nation we're getting past the race-baiting phase of politics, and our campaigns will be run on the issues. by
4. • You touched on the death of Atwater's little brother when the child was 3 years old. How much do you think that episode of his life carried over into his work? by Washington, DC
   • Answer: Great question. It was something that all of Lee's friends told me I had to cover. They feel it really helped shape him, toughen him up, perhaps give him the extraordinary drive that led him to reshape American politics. I don't think one should take this stuff too far, however. Human nature is always something of a mystery, and a film can't 'explain' someone. Interestingly, a couple of critics, like Ella Taylor in the Village Voice, strongly disliked that part of the film. They felt it was psychologically thin. I remain fascinated, however by the way many -- not all -- of our political leaders seem to be driven by some kind of primal wound. Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton's relationships with their father and stepfather, for instance. by
5. • Terry McAuliffe came across as very self-righteous in your documentary. McAuliffe was at the center of the Clinton universe. What were your observations of McAuliffe, and what do you think he learned from Atwater that he might use for his own upcoming race for Virginia governor? by Washington, DC
   • Answer: Interesting question. I would have loved to have Ron Brown in the film, because he was DNC Chairman when Atwater chaired the RNC. There's a great story about a softball game between the two sides one year where Atwater was furious, believing Ron Brown had filled his team with ringers, and a very heated argument took place. Unfortunately, Ron is no longer with us, and I felt there had to be one Democratic party figure in the film besides Governor Dukakis for balance. Terry McAuliffe and the rest of the Clinton team studied Lee Atwater closely, unlike most Democrats who got 'slow-played', as Lee's buddy Rich Peterson explains in the film. Lee expertly played on Inside-the-Beltway preconceptions of Southerners, and hid his prodigious intelligence and keen understanding of the heartland. I believe one reason for the Democrats' long time in the wilderness was their failure to take Atwater seriously and study his playbook. by
6. • Please explain Howard Fineman's role in your work. He was very cynical of Atwater and said something to the effect of: "Life gets even with you in the end." Did he dislike Atwater? by Washington, DC
   • Answer: Thanks for bringing that up. I think Howard Fineman has enormous respect for Atwater's influence in the party and actually liked him a lot. Everyone liked Lee; he was incredibly charming. I had to shorten the film to conform with the PBS time slot, and that quote is now at the end. I would hate for anyone to think that Fineman or the film are saying that Atwater's cancer was somehow karmic retribution. That would be a ridiculous and offensive statement. I recently lost my mother to cancer and it is an equal-opportunity destroyer. Ted Kennedy, who was on the opposite side of most issues from Atwater, is battling a very similar type of cancer now. The quote is intended to refer to how Lee had so much intelligence and charm and achieved so much fame and power, and in the end it was all taken away from him, as Lee's close friend Tucker Eskew explains in the film. by
10. • You had some real insiders participate in your work. Who declined to speak with you? Why didn't we hear from Mrs. Atwater? by Washington, DC
    • Answer: I felt fortunate to get such open and insightful interviews from people that knew Atwater so well, such as Ed Rollins, Mary Matalin, Senior McCain/Palin Advisor Tucker Eskew, Roger Stone, and Lee's close friends Joe Sligh, Rich Peterson, Jim McCabe, and R&B legend Chuck Jackson. I decided to forego narration in the film, which was quite difficult, because I wanted the people who knew Lee best to tell the story. Of course, I had to let a few people on the left comment in order to be "fair and balanced." As for people who I would have liked to have, George H.W. Bush is no longer giving interviews, although he did appear in a profile I did of David Kearns, his Undersecretary of Education. The one person who basically declined was Karl Rove. I sent him a few emails but never heard back. He was in the White House at the time and I'm not sure he ever got them. Lee's mother and wife did not want to be in the film. They felt that he had been mis-portrayed by the media too many times. They were incredibly gracious and helpful to the project, however, and are wonderful people. Ultimately we were making a political biography and not a personal one, and I left out personal information about Lee's life which I felt was too sensationalistic. by
11. • You made it seem as though Atwater was so empty and lonely at the end of his life. Was he in real danger of being knocked out of politics and out of favor by the GOP powers? by Washington, DC
    • Answer: I learned while making the film that certain political figures like Jim Baker were apparently extremely loyal to Lee until the end, visiting him frequently. Other accounts don't make clear that Lee's closest friends like Mary, Jim, Joe, Rich, and Chuck were there with him until the very end. However, Lee's friends feel that after he was no longer useful to them, many people whose careers would not have been possible without Lee suddenly disappeared. We won't mention any names here, but they know who they are. by
13. • Atwater was a co-founder of the Red Hot & Blue barbecue restaurants. Is his family still affiliated with the company? by Wash, DC
    • Answer: I don't think they are. The one in Arlington, VA still remains somewhat of a shrine to Atwater, however. Amazing pictures on the wall. I ate there with a bunch of Lee's friends. by
15. • I've heard that some cynics say Atwater's deathbed repentence and apologies to those he had wronged was another -- and the last -- of his "spin" jobs. Do you agree? by Washington, DC
    • Answer: No, I really don't agree. Of course, he was a bit of a rogue and kept his sense of humor to the end, and as people point out in the film, Atwater's apologies really were mischaracterized in the media. But I think it's impossible to watch Lee's moving speech from his wheelchair near the end of Boogie Man and not believe that he had looked deeply at his life and come to some fundamental realizations. by
16. • This year's presidential election was very tame in comparison to previous campaigns. What do you think Mr. Atwater would have thought of the tone of the McCain/Obama matchup? by Washington, DC
    • Answer: Great question. I'm sure Lee would have been itching to give McCain some advice. You remember that as Chairman, Lee advocated the big-tent strategy that would welcome all sides on wedge issues like abortion. Ironically, however, by courting the Southern evangelical base in '88, Lee had a huge role in the Southernizing of the GOP. My grandfather, a staunch Republican, wouldn't recognize this party any more. Lee helped turn the party of Teddy Roosevelt into the party of Tom DeLay. His unrepentant vision of politics as war has won some huge victories, but when taken too far has ultimately marginalized the GOP. You can't win elections by writing off big cities and losing all the Chafees and Shays and George Will, the whole moderate wing of the party. I think Atwater would be amazed by the extent to which the McCain camp failed to successfully execute his playbook. Being such a keen strategist, he knew how negative - or comparative, as he called it - campaigning can backfire. At a time when a Presidential front-runner like George Allen can torpedo his whole career with one word like macaca, Atwater would probably have toned down some of Palin's rhetoric and been much quicker to denounce people shouting things like "Kill him!" at rallies. He probably wouldn't have run ads like the one depicting Obama as a wolf in the woods who would "destroy" Sarah Palin and instead hit Obama much harder on culture war stuff like the 'clinging to guns and religion' statement. As someone who modeled his political campaigns on the unity and precision of his idol James Brown's stage show, there would have been a lot less infighting and more message discipline and consistency throughout the campaign. And can you imagine Atwater, who had his admirers in the press wrapped around his little finger, openly declaring war on the media? Unthinkable. by
17. • Mr. Forbes, we're nearing the end of live chat. Thanks for joining us at WashingtonTimes.com, and please come back any time. by David Eldridge
    • Answer: It's been a huge pleasure. Thanks to everyone for the great questions. I'd also like to thank The Times for having me, and for contributing to Boogie Man the powerful, award-winning photograph of Lee Atwater at Dan Quayle's birthday party. It's such a powerful photograph, taken by the great photographer Ruth Fremson. Again, it's an honor to be here and to tell the story of such a legendary American life. by