Cheney linked to torture tactics

Why are Americans so stupid? We are in a war, and if the American people think that our soldiers are not being tortured for information they are sadly mistaken. Why is it ok for another country to torture us, but when it comes time for the Americans to torture to get info, we are in the wrong? People there are no rules in war, it is war!! In Iraq they have people dressing up as civilians wearing bombs strapped to their chest and blowing our soldiers up. There is a code of conduct in regards to war, but when the opposition does not follow these rules, why should we? We are torturing these people to ultimately save American lives (which is all we should be worried about in the first place)! Granted I am sure that some of the detainees are innocent and do not know anything, but are you willing to die if our soldiers don't do so, to make sure that they don't know anything? Come on America, our own judicial system pins the fall on the wrong person all the time and we allow it. Granted they have a trial and they are found guilty by their peers, but we are not always right. So what that person looses many many years of his/her life before being found not guilty and we can't give anything back to them other than we are sorry. So torture the people that are prisoners of war and appologize afterwards, that's all we do for our citizens.

Mr. riedel, You couldn't be more wrong. Let me count the reasons why America, of all countries, should not torture people. 1. We as a country have been the bastion of freedom and honesty and everything that is perceived as good and noble in a nation: you don't throw that away as Bush did just because some people might be guilty. 2. Because of our actions in the last 8 years, torture included, America's image has been tarnished and her position as a strong, unique leader has been diminished. 3. You are willing to base your bad deeds, torture, on the presumption that the other party does the same thing but don't have any proof of that - very un-American. 4. Without that code of conduct in a war we could become another Russia, or China, or any other country who kills indiscriminately men, women, and children. Is that what you are proposing we should become? 5. Are you suggesting that since we are already making a mistake putting our own innocent people in jail we could very well do the same thing with foreigners and feel good about it? Is this the America you would like to live in? I don't think so because next it could happen to you and then you would be enraged and scared and you would wonder where your birth-given rights went. Let's continue asking our government to represent us with our best qualities, not our worst fears.

Sadly, I grew up in a country guided by morality and ethics. In those days, it was always wrong to torture anyone, regardless of their status as a combatant. You see, we had determined as a country, that torture was morally bankrupt and wrong. Now, in the name of gaining some elusive security advantage (presumably based on gaining information), we've thrown out all of those ideals. So, in essence, we have thrown away the one defining moral characteristic that made us different (better) than the terrorist elements in the world. Instead of a world leader guided by laws and ideals, we have become followers driven by fear, deception, and arrogance assuming that the normal rules of morality and ethics no longer apply to us. I for one am sorry to see it go... PS - I didn't even get into the political aspects of an administration that claims we are at "war", yet determines that enemy elements detained as part of that "war" are not technically "enemy combatants" under the Geneva Convention. I'll leave that for someone else...

Lets also not forget that aside from just being plain evil, torturing people for information really doesn't work very well. All of the arguments that we should cast aside our humanity and do this for the greater good are based on the false assumption that this even works. It'd be one thing if we legitimately were using terrible practices for good ends, but we aren't. Torture isn't any more effective than astrology or a magic 8-ball. Sure, maybe you get a right answer once in a while, but it's basically dumb luck you could never depend on. And politically, it'd almost be better to just execute our prisoners and cut them open to read their entrails for Bad Omens like they did thousands of years ago - at least they wouldn't be recruiting against us afterward. Every torture victim that is eventually freed tells their story, to how many people? The main reason there's so much energy put into fighting against us is that we've given sooo many people iron-clad evidence that we're the evil warmongering bad guys. There's no acceptable reason for torture. If we do we only prove that WE'RE enemy - of Islam, Christianity, morality, humanity; take your pick. I want to think we're better than that, ultimately the truth is in what we do, not what we say to justify it.

Riedel, Why do you say: "Why is it ok for another country to torture us,..."? Is that really your opinion, that it is ok to torture US soldiers? And if not, why would you do it to someone else?

What is wrong with torturing muslims in order to prevent further muslim atrocities and mass murders? As soon as these muslims cease to provide usefull information, stuff bacon on their mouths and hang them.

To "win" this kind of "war" you must win the hearts and minds of the people. Torture just creates anti-americanism abroad. For the top people in the white house to ever meet about torture methods is maybe the most idiotic thing an administration has ever done. The only way you could torture would be at the C.I.A. level in a special case scenario.. to organize it on a larger scale so you can't publicly deny it is beyond stupid, a breach of national security and literally the worst thing you could do if you wanted to not spread anti-americanism.

I hope to god this will lead to impeachment for all the scallawags in this, the most secretive and law-breaking administration in history. To flaut international law, the Geneva Conventions, and the UN resolutions against the US's pre-emptive war, the criminals responsible for the atrocities perpetrated in Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, and elsewhere deserve to hang by their fingrnails. Waterboarding them would show the world that the American people are fed up and willing to do something APPROPRIATE about it. One must keep in mind that the Code of Hammurabi has been the law in the middle east for at least 1500 years. For us to stoop so low as to emulate such viciousness on a grand scale is unfathomable and unconscionable.

The US has always been a country that has shown compassion-the US condemned Hussien for his tactics, yet the US sanctions torture. The American people have been lied to/misled by this administration on many issues.This administration is able to bypass whatever law he wants by using fear as a motivating factor. As long as this administration is in office, it should not come as any surprise that the US uses torture.

so, its still okay to impeach a president for lying about personal indescretions in the oval office that hurt no one and were no ones business, but we let war criminals, who lied to the american people time and again to get us into a war that has killed more than 4000 americans and countless innocent people, go scott free? not to mention all the other illegal and immoral things they've done. what is wrong with us?

what you are failing to address on this issue is causality. i know its a big word for some of you, and it means "why would we use such techniques?" is this standard operation for us? no this is not the standard. this is the exception. these measures are used when deemed appropriate by those with all the facts, not the average couch jockey with a political opinion or agenda. one has to remember that these insurgents, terrorists, extremists etc.. are out to do as much damage to us wherever, whenever, or however they can. they hate you. pure hatred. im not saying all arabs or muslims hate you. im saying these men that are "tortured" hate you. these tactics are deployed to save lives by obtaining vital info.

RE: reidel, Perhaps you need a bit of a history lesson. The Eighth Amendment (Amendment VIII) to the United States Constitution, which is part of the United States Bill of Rights, prohibits excessive bail or fines, as well as cruel and unusual punishment. If you would like to argue that foreign "detainees" do not apply then for your educational pleasure...an excerpt from the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that ALL MEN are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." (Oh and please read the next portion of the Declaration for some other education) I understand that in times of war certain liberties are taken with POW's, and don't let government spin tell you that detainees are anything less than POW's, however your argument that just because others are doing it to us we should do it to them is ludicrous. We shouldn't strive to be LIKE them, we should strive to be BETTER than them. And besides torture doesn't work. If you torture someone enough they will tell you whatever you want to hear (regardless of truth) just to get the torture to stop. I'd tell you I shot Lincoln if that is what you wanted to hear.

It makes no difference whether or not our enemies are degraded psychopaths who torture and murder. We're Americans. We don't torture and murder. Even when our enemy is at the door. They've brutally murdered our people, plot in the dead of night to murder others. We are strong because we don't torture and murder. We will triumph over these barbarians without becoming them. We will do what needs to be done. But these acts were done out of weakness of charactor and fear of ourselves. We must overcome the fear of our own neighbors. The fear perpetuated by so called conservaives that we are beset by American hating liberals everywhere. That these plot to wreck the country and replace it with God knows what. This fear has poisened our belief in ourselves. It has led to the false belief that only by being as ruthless as our ememies can we triumph. But these beliefs are wrong. We did not resort to this when we destroyed Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, even when we knew they did worse to our soldiers. The people who did this have betrayed us all.

Is The Great Tribulation About To Begin? www.hismailroom.com www.prophecies.org www.spiritlessons.com

Both sides of the torture debate have one very weak argument. (One side has many good arguments as well.) On the liberal side, we have the idea that "....torture doesn't work. If you torture someone enough they will tell you whatever you want to hear (regardless of truth) just to get the torture to stop." Why do you suppose we gave spies cyanide capsules? If torture didn't work we would have come up with the idea of sending spies out to be tortured to confuse the enemy. Obviously, torture does work if you do it right. Much of the information to be gained from torturing is readily confirmable -- a computer password, for example. The dumb, and dishonest, argument on the right side is the claim that things like waterboarding are not torture because it's really important that we get this information. Actually, ends usually do justify the means (what else would?), but the end doesn't redefine the the means, making torture not-torture. That is doublespeak. There may be good reasons for doing it, but that doesn't mean that it isn't torture.